In Continuation of Muslim Dialog...

Here is an interesting poll taken among American Muslims...courtesy of Michelle Malkin.

I do find this a bit curious however....

• Relatively few Muslim Americans believe the U.S.-led war on terror is a sincere effort to reduce terrorism, and many doubt that Arabs were responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Just 40% of Muslim Americans say groups of Arabs carried out those attacks.

If they don't believe the Arabs whos photos were blasted all over the world media were responsible for the 9/11 attacks that killed 3000 of their fellow Americans....then who do they think were????

Again...lets have open dialog...civil open dialog....shall we?

Lisa

Comments

[jar jar]

americans support killing of civilians at a higher rate than muslims do though

[Paul]

If the only proof they have is reports from the U.S. government I can understand their skeptisism. Particularly when some of the initial "hijackers" were found alive and well in other countries and were taken off the list to be replaced by new Arabs. It made the list of hijackers seem more like a list of potential suspects that could not be disproven than solid investigation.

[RD]

Just for civil arguments sake, jar jar, I pretty sure you've been misinformed. As far as I know, no rate of civilian killing has been established and no comparison of nationalities tendency has been successfully measured. Further, you're argument is somewhat flacid in that we are discussing the opinions of Muslim AMERICANS, so your comparison has no y-axis. It is a statistical non-event.

And Paul, I doubt if your personal argument really applies - kind of an unsubstantiated cut and paste. You know when someone commits a heinous crime and the reporters interview a relative. What do they almost always say - "I just don't believe it. Jeffrey was such a good boy, there is no way he would have eaten that boy." Don't you think it's more of a group denial defense mechanism? I doubt if it is much of unusual phenomenon.

[HC]

I do not believe our war in Iraq is a War on Terror. Bin Laden is still alive, well and living in Pakistan. So why should I expect Muslin's to buy this crap.

[RD]

HC, it is painful to read your pleadings. You say you want to understand; that you want to discuss these issues and figure things out for the good of all mankind. Yet, you don't believe anything other that what the likes of Olberman says to you. Let's peel the onion.

Your leading sentence is does deal with a complex issue. Is the war in Iraq at it's current stage actually a main front in the War on Terror (Islamic Extremism?) I can see where you could argue that it has taken on a life in tangent to the WOT. Point HC.

Your second sentence. Is he alive - let's say probably; no proof otherwise. Is he well - one would hope so. I want him to be able to fully absorb his life in caves, tucked away in the desolate mountains, far from even the hint of the comfort his riches could have provided him. Let's call it Hell on Earth.

Your last sentence has me flustered. Is it somehow related to the first two? Buy what crap? Is this what you have been reduced to? You've begun to resemble those you say you despise. Interesting how intellect eventually reveals itself.

[Lisa]

OK Jar Jar... you put it out there.... now back it up. Show me proof of that statement.

[NerdMom]

I think there are 2 groups of Arab denial. First are the ones that just don't trust us and are conspiracy people. The second would be a group in disbelief because of their own leadership. People with more of the mindset, "If Arabs could have done this, why haven't our religious leaders spoken out more". I remember learning about some Germans (and others) who didn't truly believe in the Holocaust. They doubted that the entire german society would stand by and allow it. They also didn't believe the world would stand by and not intercede. A line I remember is "didn't anyone notice 6 million Jews disappearing before throwing open the camps?". It is hard to believe in the goodness of your own people but also believe in their ability to do something so horrifing and beyond reason.

[HC]

Crap defined: The war in Iraq is the main front for "War on Terror" There is no such thing as a War on Terror. Terror is tactic of war, therefore you cannot have a "War on Terror." You cannot win War against a war tactic.

What we should have is a War against al-Qaeda. We can beat Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, but we must focus on Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, before we can win that war. With us focusing on Iraq, Bid Laden is free to build al-Qaeda.

Does that help you understand what I mean by crap?

[RD]

Yes HC, telling us what you mean helps us understand what you mean. Pretty good argument. This crap is much better that the other crap.

[Lee]

Lizajane and Lisa

Can I comment?

Now I know correct English would have me ask, 'May I comment'?

But You, Lisa, f*cked up the English when you said, "... who do they think were????..."

And so did RD with his misuse, (and misspelling of), of 'flaccid'

Is this 'Pot the Black kettle calling the?...;0)

...:0)

[Lee]

Question 2:

Will one of you NeoCons please tell me what am I supposed to be more paranoid of, (in order to be a True blue loyal patriot),

Mex-cans Northbound

or

A-rabs hell-bound?

Inquiring minds wanna know....

[RD]

Lee, sorry to hear about your injury. I'm sure getting your nose knocked out of joint is painful.

[RD]

I'm still not sure what a neocon is - are some of Clinton's cronies getting out of jail? I'll share my thoughts on the illegal alien situation. First of all, we have established a long history, a pattern and practice, of allowing Hispanic workers to cross our open borders and find work here in America. There have been several weak attempts in the past to 'address' this issue and failed for one reason or another. As in any situation that is at first seemingly harmless and grows into a much larger challenge, fixing it now is a complex issue. There are those that should be able to stay, and there are those that should be sent back. Most of that decision revolves around legal issues - with decent hard working people given the benefit of the doubt, and the criminal element given the boot. If you work here, you should pay taxes here; and if we are providing social services you should contribute to that also in similar fashion with citizens. I'm in favor of some comprehensive program with bipartisan compromises. We should be able to figure this out.

[RD]

STEPHEN SCHWARTZ (http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=052207B): "Muslims are not silent in the face of radicalism, extremism, and other ideologies that support terrorism from within the ranks of the Islamic global community, or umma. But Western mainstream media - the MSM - have proven unwilling or incapable of reporting to Western audiences on the personalities embodying the Islamic "counter-jihad," the principles that impel them, or the daily facts of their struggle. When the battle for the mosque is invoked, it is too often done so by commentators who have no idea how this battle shapes up, where its fronts are located, or who represents each trend. . . . But the burgeoning fear of Islam in the West feeds the appeal of radicalism among Muslims, both inside and outside the Islamic world. Western media could play a significant role in alleviating the threat of a 'clash of civilizations.'"

(RD Note) I am saddened but somehow not surprised that the news media is contributing to our lack of information on the efforts of good Muslims.

H/T http://www.instapundit.com/

[RD]

And in Victor David Hansen's view (http://victordavishanson.pajamasmedia.com/2007/05/21/post_13.php) the myth perpetuated by liberal Democrats that the US has alienated it's allies by reacting strongly to terrorists is beginning to rub threadbare. You see, the truth stands the test of time - lies are short lived, although unfortunate they last an election cycle. It took six years for the "Had Enough" crowd to lie themselves into office. It's only taken six months to reveal the American public was misled. That's OK, that's how it works. We'll fix it next year.

[LizaJane]

http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=510

Good article.

"Second, and worse still, multiculturalism has reversed the notions of truth and lies, victim and victimiser. Since minorities can do no wrong, they cannot be held responsible for acts such as suicide bombings which must instead be the fault of their victims. This key confusion, which has caused intellectual and moral paralysis in the west, plays directly into the pathological Muslim victim culture which makes dialogue impossible. Because so many Muslims genuinely believe they are under attack by the west, which is a giant conspiracy to destroy Islam. So they perceive their own aggression as legitimate self-defence, and the west’s defence as aggression."

[Lee]

LizaJane, "...Second, and worse still, multiculturalism has reversed the notions of truth and lies, victim and victimiser. Since minorities can do no wrong, they cannot be held responsible for acts such as suicide bombings which must instead be the fault of their victims..."

Before 'Multiculturalism' You force fed us: 'His-Story', which is "The Narrow-minded, racist, 'Anglo-Euro-centric-white-supremacist' manifest destiny paradigm"...

I guess you, LizaJane, want to return to those glorious days of yesteryear when all the mongrels were downtrodden and docile?

You keep rationalizing and justifying the hellish his-story that is now coming home to bite you in the ass.....

It's a little late in the game to cry 'foul'! Don't you think?

[RD]

...as opposed to the "The Narrow-minded, racist, 'Elitist-radical-fringe-black-reparations' keep-them-down-and-angry paradigm"...
that works so well for Jesse and Al.

[Paul]

Um, what minorities are suicide bombers?

[Lee]

RD:
Whatever 'Paradigm' Sharpton and Jackson preach, as you claim, they represent only themselves and their small protest organizations.

What I referred to is the ruling power of Western governments, over the last 400 years in conquering and colonizing the entire planet!
You have stretched your poisonous European tentacles to every corner of the planet, en-slaving damn near everybody, (those that you did not 'Ethnically cleanse away'). You only had to breathe and cough on the poor f*cking Caribs, and they died in a minute or two!
You have ransacked and pillaged the entire continent of Africa. It is so f*cked up now with dysfunctional puppet regimes, and so decimated with disease, that it is in chaos on a scale of horror that is unimaginable.
A close 2nd is the continent of S. America, (yes, RD and LizaJane, America is more than the USA).Because they look a lot more like you folks, the damage is less stark than is the damage to darkest Africa.
The only areas where your lethal tentacles of death have failed to overcome are Asia, and Micronesia.
That is why they will ultimately kick your economic and societal asses over the next several decades, without bombs or shots..They will buy up all your debt and thus will own you.

Welcome to slavery!

[LizaJane]

Good god Lee, you are a freakin nightmare. The artcle and this topic is about Muslim minorities wanting to live in western culture-OR, trying to take over it, eliminate it, destroy it, or make it hard for the rest of us to enjoy it. THIS S NOT ABOUT RACE. It is about CULTURE and a way of life Shut UP! You are a hypocrite! Do you or do you not live and enjoy the city you live in and what it represents, acheives and has????? Hello? Anybody home Las Vegas? Holy freaking cow. Can we not have ANY conversation without you talking about your skin color? SHEESH LEE!

[Lee]

Lizajane

Your 'Pusher' will be glad to know your 'drugs' are still working!

When you 'Come Down'..Please re-read my post and se that it speaks diectly to topic....

...Pink Elephants on parade...Pink Elephants on parade...da-dum...da-dum...da dum...

[LizaJane]

Yes that's it Lee. I am on drugs so that explains your hypocrisy. What a clever gentlemen you are. You are a legend in your own mind.

[Lee]

OK, LJ
I'll talk slower...and use littler words for ya...

The topic is why a significant number of young Muslims are so willing to commit violence and are willing to die to do it...

My response refers to the historical events that have led to this worldwide resentment against the 'West' in their eyes.
I only put forth my statement to put it into a 'global' context.
Bush, and the NEOCONS only talk in slogans; only dispense propaganda; and prey upon the ethnic/religious fears and prejudices of Americans to skew the dialogue.
These events are all connected in a global way.
The resentment at the creation of Israel in 1948, displacing Palestinians, is at least to this poster, is one of the key reasons that causes the intense resentment against the USA.
We support Israel, therefore in their eyes, we are the Infidels.
The other reasons, (the colonial stuff), go further back and as a result are more deeply ingrained into the psyche of Muslims.

Did you grasp any of that?

[LizaJane]

Excuse me? What muslims are you talking about here Lee? Where? Sheesh.

You know, now I know why you identify with them. I read on Jamal's blog how they like all our "stuff" but not "us".

I also read on that blog that the average Arab man only works 26 minutes a day.

Did you know that in Islam, an atheist is considered on the same level as a murderer in society Lee? I read that on Jamal's blog too.

That's right Lee, that's how they think of you and you didn't have anything to do with the historical events that have led to this worldwide resentment against the 'West' in their eyes.

In fact, America ranked high approval ratings from Islamic nations for along time Lee-until "we americans" became hippies, worshipped Hollywood, had free love-talked about sex all the time, became progressives, established gay rights, "living together" ...divorce.. abortion... The Iranians were appauled that the British let a female in their Navy.