The Importance of Being Shot...

If the world weren't so preoccupied with Dick Cheney shooting someone, then most certainly we would be focusing on the fact that "Scooter" Libby has said the VP told him to leak classified intelligence, right? Or, if not that, then we would absolutely be talking about the fact that the CIA guy who was in charge of the Middle East has said the VP was instrumental in "cherry picking" the Intel that led us to war in Iraq. How could we not?

If the Vice President hadn't gone and shot someone and then mismanaged notifying the press, I have no doubt that we would be discussing this. That is how good the conservative machine really is...

Chris

Update: Here is the thing: I get that hunting accidents occur. When they do, however, usually the authorities are called. No one gets to wait fifteen hours to talk to the police after they shoot someone.

Also, for all of those saying that I am soooo wrong, that I don't know anything about hunting, that obviously this wasn't the VP's fault--what do the hunting rules say about drinking and hunting? Go here.

Imagine how not a big deal this would have been if after the incident and getting the guy to the hospital, the VP had talked to the authorities and done all the things normal people do when an accident happens...

to dream the impissible dream...

Comments

[JFH]

Chris, you're making assumptions on facts not yet in evidence. First, portions of the NIE that had been DECLASSIFIED were publicly released 10 days after the purported incidences between Libby and reporters... It is quite likely that Libby was authorized to give the reporters a "heads-up" of the information that was going public (publicly released material almost certainly had been declassified prior to that date as it takes time to put it in a form for public consumption)

Here are some timelines and questions that I got from another site. In keeping with the premise of this thread I believe them appropriate for here:

• 5:30 p.m., Saturday (all times Central Standard Time). Mr. Cheney sprays Harry Whittington with birdshot, and the Secret Service immediately informs local police. Who is Harry Whittington and whom does he lobby for? Does he know Scooter Libby?

• 6:30 p.m. White House Chief of Staff Andy Card informs President Bush that there's been a hunting accident involving the Vice President's party. Did Mr. Bush ask follow-up questions? Was he intellectually curious?

• 7 p.m. Karl Rove tells Mr. Bush that it is Mr. Cheney who did the shooting. Why was this detail withheld for a full 30 minutes from the President? Who else did Mr. Rove talk to about this in the interim? Was Valerie Plame ever mentioned?

• 5 a.m., Sunday. White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan learns that Mr. Cheney is the shooter. He also fails to alert the media. Did he rush to write talking points or fall back to sleep?

• 11 a.m. Katharine Armstrong, owner of the ranch where the shooting took place, blows the story sky-high by giving the news to the Corpus Christi Caller-Times. According to Ms. Armstrong, Mr. Cheney told her to do what she thought made sense. Has Ms. Armstrong ever worked for Halliburton?

• 1:30 p.m. The Texas paper posts the story on its Web site, after calling the Veep's office for confirmation. Everyone involved confirms more or less everything, or so the official line goes. Their agreement is very suspicious.

• 11:27 a.m., Monday. Mr. McClellan finally holds a press conference and gets grilled. One reporter actually asks (and we're not making this one up), "Would this be much more serious if the man had died?"

[USMC Steve]

Chris,

Hunting accidents should not happen. They do, but that is because of a fuckup on at least one person's part, and in this case on two people's parts. Whittington should have announced himself when he moved up behind a guy with a loaded weapon, and Cheney should never have hit the trigger when he lost his target in the sunlight. They were both wrong, and common sense should have been better applied.

What is your basis for allegations that Cheney had been drinking? Substantiate that please.

Cheney has absolutely no obligation whatsoever to alert the media about anything. That is their job to do. They need to get off their leftist asses and do it. Spoon feeding the elitist 4th estate is nowhere in the job description of the VP.

The information on the NIE was authorized for release to the press, so the timing of the release is a good question, but if the info was sanitized somewhat (it was, the press got only generalized information), and authorized for release, then there is no crime there STILL. I can assure you that none of us is ever going to see the full NIE as it was originally prepared for the president, because that would have been classified at least Secret Codeword in its entirety before sanitization.

Your institutional democrat paranoia of anything not democrat is showing again, gal. How about applying some analytical techniques and trying to be objective here?

[Chris]

USMC Steve--click on the link--it shoudl take you to a photo grab of a story that hs since been pulled--but that quotes the woman/owner of the ranch as saying there was beer with the group--as to whether or not Cheney was drinking I don't know. I know if it had been you involved in a hunting accident you would have been asked to take a test to see what if any alcohol was in your system...that probably didn't happen 15 hours later when Cheney met with the police. My issue isn't with notifying or not notifying the press--from a political point of view he would have been wise to do so, but you are right he is under no obligation to do so. I don't like that he didn't have to meet with authorities for 15 hours and I don't like that we won't know if he was drinking...

the charge against Cheney is not that he authorized the leaking of the declassified NIE as I understand it and while the harm that did or didn't come from the releasing of Valerie Plames name is questionable the fact is her status was classified. Either leaking classified stuff is bad or it isn't but if it is bad it is bad every time--and the accusation is that Judith Miller was shown things and told things that were not in the declassified version of the NIE, by Libby, at the behest of Cheney.

[Laura H]

I am sorry Chris, but I must have missed the fact that the VP waited all that time to speak to the authorities. Is it in the Dr. Phil/Paula Abdul interview? I cannot find it anywhere. From what I heard and read, the information was not released to the press and that the VP was with Whittington's family at the hospital since the accident happened.
If it is the case than at least he made sure that the injured party actually got medical attention before talking to the authorities. Unlike a Senator who lets a woman die and waits 12 hours to go to the authorities.

[Arthur Stone]

The problem isn't so much the VP's unwillingness to address the event publicly, rather for me it is the 15 hour gap between the time of the shooting and the time law enforcement was notified.

Given that the ranch owner has stated that alcohol was drunk by members of the hunting party prior to the afternoon incident involving the VP it is impossible to know if drink played a part in the Vp's fuckup.

Of course none of it would have happened if the guy hadn't went and got himself shot. Like so many errors of judgement this administration has made and continues to make, it's easier to blame sommeone else. In this case the guy standing behind the VP.

[Chris]

http://www.crooksandliars.com/stories/2006/02/14/msnbcscrubsBeerLineFromCheneyStory.html

read the article on this screen grab it says 15 hours and talks about beer

[JFH]

To use an apropos metaphor, Chris, that dog don't hunt. First of all, anyone suggesting the theory that Cheney was drunk or even had a couple of beers before hunting has never hunted quail before. Unlike ducks and geese that fly a straight line overhead, a flushed quail comes out of a covey in unpredictable fashion and very quickly. This requires fast reactions and reflexes making impossible to kill anything if you're drunk.

Second, that there was beer present at the picnic is no smoking gun; when my wife's family books a hunting excursion, half the family NEVER hunts, e.g. hangs out at the lodge and not every hunter hunts in every outing (e.g. if your watching, why not pop open a beer).

Finally, Arthur, let's get the facts straight, it was the PRESS that wasn't informed for 15 hours about the incident, not the police who were informed relatively quickly.

[Chris]

JFH -- if you were involved in a hunting accident there would be a look see into whether or not you had been drinking--and I believe it was the police who were not notified for 15 hours--it took the media longer than 15 hours to be informed

[Arthur Stone]

Also turns out that the local sheriff was barred by the secret service from actually inteviewing the VP. CBS White House correspondent Peter Maier reported that little morsel. They did learn about the incident when an ambulance was summoned.

As to when the authorities were notified the point is moot. What matters is that person who shot another person avoided having to answer any questions from the authorities regarding the event.

This, I think, is a concern.

And do we copmpare pen-raised flightless quail with flight patterns of ducks and geese?

And how, at this point, will we ever know how much (if any) drinking went on?

I'm afraid we'll have to do better than comparing the actions of the nations VP with your anecdotes regarding your wife's family.

[USMC Steve]

Arthur is right - Cheney is guilty of at least attempted murder and orchestrating a cover up, so let us save time and effort and just cut his balls off right now. And let him bleed to death. That would only be fair. Yep.

[Shari]

From Mark Levin, lawyer

Get Dan Quayle on the Phone

I think the media are on to something. Clearly the public has a right to know all the details of the vice president's near murder of an aging lawyer in Texas (is that a crime?). Let me be the first to suggest that we need a bi-partisan blue ribbon commission in the model of the Warren Commission. We'll call it the Quail Commission. Obviously, the most appropriate person to head the body would be Dan Quayle. The commission could investigate such burning issues as the single quack theory, whether a second armed vice president had been hiding in the grassy knoll, and how the billing records for the trip wound up on a table in Hillary Clinton's Senate office. Full disclosure is the only way to put this pseudo-scandal behind us.
02/14 11:56 AM

[JFH]

Arthur (and Chris to a lesser extent), please quit while you are behind. It was aprox. 15 hours that the sheriff's department INTERVIEWED Cheney on the incident (around the same time the FIRST press, the local paper, was informed by Ms. Armstrong); the S.S. reported the incident less than 1 and 1/2 hours after it happened.

There would not "be a look see into whether or not" if I "had been drinking" as the presumption of innocence is held without other mitigating factors. Come on, Chris, I'm sure you've been in an accident in your life; did the police first ask for a breathalyzer for everyone involved (assuming it wasn't past midnight on a weekend)?

Arthur, I keep hearing this "pen-raised flightless quail" meme. If, they were flightless, Mr. Whittington would have been shot in the legs. Let me educate ya, pen-raised quail ARE more likely to run from a covey than fly compared to wild quail, but it's a cardinal sin to shoot a quail on the ground (I caught hell from members of my wife's family for shooting a bird that they claimed I kicked up in the air one of the first times I hunted; I still say that the bird flew up when I got really close). I've got to admit when pen-raised quail flush, their flight paths are much lower than wild ones, which contributed to the accident. BUT, they are still really quick to fly out of the covey which makes it quite different than hunting water fowl.

[Arthur Stone]

usmcSteve-

You seem to have a different take on accepting responsiblity than most. Being a mensch isn't quite bleeding to death.

Unless, perhaps, you are a high ranking official in this administration.

[JFH]

Bleeding to death? From bird shot? Keep digging that hole Arthur...

(Note to the rest of y'all, you can definitely killed by birdshot, even with 7 1/2 shot which is half the size of a BB shot. It's just that bleeding out is rarely in the cards, more likely damage to a major organ at close range)

[Arthur Stone]

JFH-

Whittington was hit from a distance described as 30 yards. Seems consistent with a flightless bird.

And just for the heck of it, do you not find it odd that the VP was not interviewed by law enforcement for his role in a SHOOTING until 15 hours after the event? SS handled the initial inquiry.

You are a very trusting soul if you think that would be your experience in the same situation.

Oh and 'bleeding to death'is a figment of usmcSteve's imagination. Can't hang that one on me.

[Arthur Stone]

Shari-

Mark Levin should know better.

James Wolcott got it right about Levin.

"Doug Feith used to be the stupidest f**king guy on the planet."

[Karen]

Cheney spoke to the authorities. He had one beer at lunch many hours before the incident. Ted Kennedy waited many hours and covered up a murder. Hillary Clinton destroyed evidence at the scene of Vince Foster's suicide via Maggie Williams and demanded to be the one to say when the note could be public. Harry Reid waited 3 days to disclose a stroke.

[Chris]

Are any of those things right cuz I'm not sure but what i am sure about, because my mother told me, is that two wrongs don't make a right

[BC]

They were hunting Apertyx? I didn't know we had them in Texas. Learn something new everyday.

[USMC Steve]

Chris is also correct. So when are the libs and dems going to ever try to hold Hillbillary's and Teddie's feet to the fire over their criminal actions. (I already know the answer to that, it was a rhetorical question.)

Arthur, go back and reread my post on Cheney again. Slowly. I was trying to follow your and Chris's train of logic in that Cheney was guilty of multiple felonies and orchestrating a coverup, for which he should be put to death. That is the gist of what you are putting forth, isn't it?

Unfortunately, there are no facts to back any of it up. Two adult men both had stupid attacks, one got hurt because of it, and no one is in prison yet; and the leftists are mad because of it.

Steve-

I never wrote that Dick was guilty of multiple felonies. You did:

Arthur is right - Cheney is guilty of at least attempted murder and orchestrating a cover up, so let us save time and effort and just cut his balls off right now. And let him bleed to death. That would only be fair. Yep.

I wrote then and believe now that the VP made poor judgements.

Dick admitted he had 'a beer' with lunch. Initially, the report from the ranch owner/hostess was that there no drinking at all period.

Dick waited 14 hours before allowing himself to be 'interviewed' by local law enforcement.

This is ample time for alcohol to pass through the body.

I have a problem with this sequence of events.