Intelligent Design

AnkleBitingPundits is having a discussion on Intelligent Design. Apparently, President Bush wants Intelligent Design taught alongside Evolution in science classes.

Now, I am not fully up on the whole ID thing. I looked it up and it seems to me it basically says that there is an order in the universe and because there was no indication of this order prior to discovering this order an Intelligent "being" must have made it happen.

It's early and I am caffeine challenged right now, but huh?

Does anyone get this?

How is this science?

How by proving order and adherence to "rules" does this indicate an Intelligent" Design?

It reminds be of the whole watchmaker theory--God or a higher being set the mechanism in  motion. I think--but it has been a long time and class was really early--it is referred to as Deism. (But I could be completely wrong)

Here is the thing: this theory is taught in philosophy or religion class--not science.

Read here, too.

Let me know what you think.

Coffee,coffee,coffee,coffee,coffee.....

Chris

Comments

[Matt Hurley]

Scientists always have an answer, right? So keep asking one how this happened; okay, how'd that happen so that this could happen; alright, so how'd this happen to make that happen to make this happen...eventually, you get to "I don't know." That is where Intelligent Design comes in.

If I understand it the idea correctly, ID is supposed to be the explanation for science being how God (or the intelligent being) "did" it.

Of course, I'm simplifying it...but that is more for my benefit than anyone else's...my head hurts just thinking about this stuff.

[Chris]

But I don't know is a scientific answer. I don't know therefore God did it is a religious answer. This does not belong in a science classroom it belongs in a religion or philosophy class.

Chris

[Matt Hurley]

I'm not so sure about that...

I think the point of ID is to say that science is how God created life. You have to admit, there are an awful lot of coincidences that had to happen in order for life to exist on this planet...

I think that the origins of life and evolution are two different things...they aren't neccessarily mutually exclusive either...

"I don't know." is a scientific answer...but it is one that doesn't answer the question. I really think ID is a theory, just like evolution, that attempts to bridge the gap between science and faith...we may never get the answer...but the pursuit of the answer lies in asking questions and that should do everyone some good. I think...

[MacStansbury]

there's your logical fallacy...there's nothing about the Christian God in there. nothing. in fact, the biologists that I've read tend to be agnostics that are genuinely seeking the truth, rather than finding pull-quotes to make a point.

I'll agree that we should put ID in religion class the same day we put Darwinism in political science.

[Chris]

Mac--

No where did I say Christian God--no God should be taught in science class. Hey, has anyone ever told you you are a wiseass?
I like it.

Chris

[HC Steve]

Matt

I thought you guys on the right believe in the Constitution. And does the Constitution say the State and Religion should be separated? If parents would to teach this religious belief outside of school then more power to them. If kids want to form a volunteer group in the school to review this religion theory then fine. But do not force your religion on those who do not want to believe as you do. That would be unconstitutional.

[Shari]

People have different definitions of evolution. I was taught in school that we came into being out of nothing, basically and it is still being taught in my son's science book. Others just consider it the process of evolving. But, we had to start somewhere. There are two ways we came into being. Designed/not designed. That's it. And neither has a scientific advantage over the other because NO ONE was there to witness it and it has not been scientificly (sp?) repeated. Why shouldn't both be taught as theories of how we came into being? Currently, only the "not designed" theory is taught. It only makes sense to teach both, IMO.

[Chris]

You can simplify it to designed/not designed and ask why shouldn't both be taught? but it's not the same. The not designed theory as you put it does not negate God setting the universe in motion...but in teaching at least in public schools there should not be any mention of God...what if the science teacher is a Muslim and he/she wants to teach that Allah designed the universe? How are you with that?

Chris

[MacStansbury]

actually, Chris, I was reacting to what Matt said. I'm personally getting tired of alternate theories being banned because they might make people think. you know, have an open mind.

and I've never heard any biologist from the ID movement use the G-word. ever. it's not really an issue. but the people who want to keep the debate quiet WILL NOT let the "it's just a way for them Jesus Freaks to get churchin' in the school."

personally, I'm tired of hearing people bash other people for having a different opinion that they don't believe in.

no, seriously.

what are you guys looking at me like that for?

[Chris]

Hey Mac--it's not scientists who are active on putting this issue in the schools it is the Jesus Freaks--your term not mine--but I like it--and I think being a Jesus Freak is great if that's what you're into--I also think it's fine if you aren't a Jesus Freak--just really want my kids studying science--the Republicans and the right were the first people to jump up and down about all the freaky ideas the left put in schools--I agree with you --so let's teach academics--not worldviews or religion or ideology or any of that--let's teach math and basic science and english and social studies and all of that--let's leave all of this out of the schools--

Chris

I'm looking at you that way because you have something hanging from your nose...

[Matt Hurley]

Steve, actually, the Constitution does NOT say that there should be a seperation of Church and State. Please cite for me where it does...here is a hint, the idea comes from a series of letters between a couple of founding fathers...but it isn't in the Consitution.

Mac, actually, I don't think the ID people stipulate who or what the "being" in question is...it could be Chris for all we know... :) I use the word "God" because that seems to be the best word to describe this "being" mentioned in the theory. I'm open to suggestion on another word if it suits you...

I have no problem with Darwinism being taught in political science class..."survival of the fittest" is a key political concept in this day and age...

[Matt Hurley]

And another thing, I don't think there is anybody talking about "banning" the teaching of evolution...that would be stupid...and as for having an "open mind", I think that's what the President was advocating when he was asked this question the other day...

Why not teach both?

[Matt Hurley]

I should also point out that I really don't have a dog in this fight...I appear to be sitting in for Lisa as Chris' counterpoint... :)

[Matt Hurley]

Another crazy idea regarding the Constitution, since Steve brought it up...the Big C actually says that any and all powers not listed in the Big C belongs to the states...shouldn't the states be deciding this issue anyway?

[Chris]

Why not teach both? Because one isn't science--

The Constitution does not actually say that about all powers not enumerated belong to the states--but that is your guys spin

Thank you for being Lisa

[HC Steve]

Thanks Chris. I did not know the right wing did not understand the difference between science and religion. Or maybe they do not understand the Constitution.

[Shari]

what if the science teacher is a Muslim and he/she wants to teach that Allah designed the universe? How are you with that?

******

If you read up on ID, it doesn't state "who" the intelligent designer is, so as long as the teacher didn't either and was Muslim, I would have no problem with it.

[Shari]

One other thing....what is the problem with presenting both sides of an issue?

[Shari]

I guess this makes two other things (g). Before you decide, read up on ID. There are a lot of prominent scientists that believe it. They have also had "peer reviewed" articles & books published.

[Chris]

There is no problem with presenting both sides of an issue but ID isn't the other side of the issue. I'm going to steal a comment from someone on AnkleBitingPundits because they say it better than me:

since when is inteligent design "the other side of the argument on evolution"? evolution is a well-supported, well-developed scientific theory about the development of the world. intelligent design is a spiritual idea about the origins of said world. evolution does not conflict with intelligent design, and vice versa; in fact, if anything on the earth is complex and incredible enough to be indicative of intelligent design, it is the system of evolution. intelligent design is a very valid and very important spiritual idea, and should be taught as such. it doesnt matter whether some scientists believe it or not, it's still not science, whereas evolution is.

The thing that bothers me about this whole thing is that once you get this--there will be those schools that teach that the Christian God is responsible for ID and when someone says hey that's not right--all we are going to hear is a chorus of they are beating up on the Christians..the immoral liberals don't want God taught...they hate God, what are they afraid of? The Founding Fathers inteded for God to be part of our everyday lives, why can't that be in science class..this is baloney...

Chris

Chris

[Chris]

Back at you Shari--there are a lot of prominent scientists who believe in Christianity too--doesn't make it science...

Chris

[HC Steve]

ARHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

ID is based on religion. Evolution is based on science. What do you not understand about that?

Public schools should not teach religion. If want your kids to learn ID in school send them to private school. End of Story!!!!

[Shari]

I am talking about origin of life and maybe I didn't make that clear. If you think that evolution has "proven" that we evolved out of nothing, basically, then please point me to the science behind it. I have NO problem with the natural selection, etc. part of evolution being taught. It's the one sided, humanistic approach to origin of life. It takes just as much "faith" to believe we evolved out of nothing as it does (maybe more)to believe an intelligent designer is behind it all. After all, what I am typing on was designed and is much less complex than a human body.

And Chris, you are right about the scientists and Christianity, but I would point you to their scientific work in the field of ID. Read some of it and come to your own conclusions.

And here is a comment from blogsforbush.

"Zionist, I think you are onto it there. For the record I am an atheist myself but I could be wrong, let's see some facts. Looking into ID myself I was amazed to find that the IDers took a much more skeptical and scientifically sound posture than the Darwinians. It is the IDers who speak the open secret that much of the Darwinian case from the 19th century was utterly fabricated. It is the Darwinians who want those facts suppressed. It is the IDers who employ modern conceptions of physics that show it is MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the random mutations of Darwinism to produce the simplest single celled organism in the time the universe has existed. It is the Darwinians who rebuke, not refute, any challenge to their views that they hold as rabidly as any "faith". Now, possibly these ID arguments are ill conceived but if so they upend much of physics and cosmology that is generally accepted. Why these holes in the Darwinist canvass cannot be told in public schools (which institution should not exist in my book and maggie, we ALL pay taxes for schools regardless of whether we have any children enrolled or what they are taught, but that is another tale) is a mystery. Not hardly divine, but a mystery still.

Posted by: megapotamus at August 3, 2005 09:51 AM"

[HC Steve]

I give up.

[Matt Hurley]

Alright! We win one... :)