I am sick of people pretending like they own 9/11. I am sick of the conservatives telling me how I have to feel about 9/11 in order to be appropriately patriotic. It's crap.
Michelle Malkin, AnkleBiting Pundits and the whole crew of people who seem to consider themselves the moral authority on everything are now publicizing and promoting the Take Back the Memorial movement. They are doing this because they don't like the people who are planning to put a Freedom Center on the site. They don't like the size or location or set up of the proposed memorial. They don't like anything as far as I can tell.
The 9/11 tragedy has been co-opted for political purposes and everyone who has done so should be ashamed--including Ms. Malkin. You don't get to decide what a national event means to everyone and you shouldn't use it to further divide our country.
I think it was crazy to decide what would be rebuilt there the way we did. I think it was asinine to allow the families to have so much input. I think it is a disgrace that we can't manage to get buildings back up there and get on with doing what we do.
The event, the families and now the site are being used to forward an agenda. It needs to stop.
Chris
Tell that to the left wing nut jobs in charge. Do you want to go to ground zero and instead of seeing a memorial to those who perished you see a condemnation of America? Do you want to see all the "civil rights violations" that America has committed? That's what they have planned, from lynchings to the treatment of Native Americans. Do you think that's appropriate? If so I'd say your in the minority.
All we want is a tasteful memorial for those who died. It's your side politisizing it. You should be ashamed of yourself agreeing with what these American haters are planning!
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel | Wednesday, June 08, 2005 at 10:05 PM
As soon as I heard Donald Trump start to weigh in on the subject, I stopped paying attention.
Posted by: hollabackdave | Wednesday, June 08, 2005 at 10:11 PM
Your rhetoric is hateful. America haters...I love it...anyone who doesn't view the world your way is an America Hater? Get real. I don't agree with these guys but you spewing forth the conservative party line is just sad--put the buildings back up and get on with it. A memorial is fine--a shrine is not. we have made professional victims out of the families my tax dollars paid them for a tradgedy no one could have forseen and now they and the people who use them for political gain want to say what can and can't be there? They don't own it and I think this is ridiculous--put up buildings and put people back to work in them
Posted by: Chris | Wednesday, June 08, 2005 at 10:21 PM
"They are doing this because they don't like the people who are planning to put a Freedom Center on the site. They don't like the size or location or set up of the proposed memorial. They don't like anything as far as I can tell."
Yeah, Chris, those are the reasons that Americans are objecting. 'Much ado about nothing'.
If people could just not give a damn, like you, we would be so much better off.
Why don't you tell us what 9/11 means to you, since you complained that others are speaking for you? (Actually, they're just speaking for themselves, but we know how liberals feel about free speech. Just glance at campus speech codes, where liberals rule the roost.)
So tell us your thoughts.
Posted by: mikem | Thursday, June 09, 2005 at 03:36 AM
I already said that I think the best memorial would be to put buildings up and put people back to work in them. What more do you want?
Why is it that trying to understand why the Arab world feels the way it does about us means that you hate America? Why does it mean that you automatically have to think we brought it on ourselves? That we are to blame?
I don't think we are to blame. I think evil men stole planes and flew them into buildings because they were evil and because they hated us.
But I think that there are reasons they wound up with that mind set. Things they thought or were taught or perceptions they had that got them there. It doesn't make it right, but understanding them is a worthwhile tool to have in the war on terror. Simply dismissing their reasons because you don't believe them doesn't add anything to the fight.
Why is seeking to understand a bad thing?
Chris
And I went to a Catholic College so let us not start on the who hates free speech...
Posted by: Chris | Thursday, June 09, 2005 at 06:10 AM
"And I went to a Catholic College so let us not start on the who hates free speech..."
Oh really? Are you contending that there is less free speech at a Catholic college than at a public one? I mean free speech for everyone. Not just pro-abortionists or feminists or leftists or pro-AA views. Where is there a greater mix of viewpoints? Where is there a greater respect for contending views on the most contentious issues? I am familiar with Catholic University and Georgetown as three of my sisters attended them. Who has a greater chance of being respectfully heard? A pro-abortionist at CU or GU or an anti- abortionist at Harvard or Yale? The same with AA and anti-AA. I'm very curious as to your take on the open mindedness of liberal dominated universities versus Catholic colleges on these hot topics.
As for the original subject you have shifted the issue from whether a memorial to the victims of 9/11 should be used to examine America's sins to whether we should ever discuss why they hate us. Of course we should discuss why they hate us, but not there. I bet your idea of why they hate us has a different tone then mine. I listen to what they say. I watch what they do. I see how they treat women and non-Islamics and gays. I watch them celebrate in the streets everytime an Israeli Jew or an American is killed in an explosion and then I compare that to the way that Israelis and Americans lament and argue amongst themselves about Palestinian deaths. I've learned a lot about how much value I should put on their 'why they hate us'.
How would you feel about an MLK memorial that discusses the failings of black leaders and black society or even MLK with his personal failings? Or an anti-homophobia memorial event that discusses 'why people hate gays' or their failings?
What it comes down to is this. If Americans are victims, it is a time to consider the views of the killers or their apologists. If the victims are on the list of approved categories, then it is just hateful to abuse their memories and their families by trying to make them into the enemy by even giving voice to the views of their murderers.
Posted by: mikem | Thursday, June 09, 2005 at 07:10 AM
OK all fair questions and topics that deserve discussion. I have to take my kid to speech therapy, but I promise to answer and mix it up with you when I get back. And just for the record, I accept no excuses nor do I make any appologies for what they did. Also, you are gonna lose the debate on MY Catholic College--when I went to school they pulled all of the books that discussed a pro-choice point of view from the library and only put them back after their federal funding was threatened. They had pro-life week in the cafeteria--will all the visual aids and a priest told one of the girls--in confession--that she was a murderer and was going to hell.
Anyway, off to be Mom. Thanks for commenting Mike and we can duke it out later.
Chris
Posted by: Chris | Thursday, June 09, 2005 at 07:41 AM
Mikem
Very well said.
Let's take a look at one of the board members of International Freedom Center, his name is Eric Foner. Mr. Foner organized an event in which "Professor" Nicholas DeGenova declared he'd like to see "a million Mogadishus." In case someone doesn't remember that was in 1993 when 18 US soldiers were killed and one of them was dragged though the streets while cameras rolled. Mr. Foner when asked about this comment he had no problem with it.
Yes, I consider the people at International Freedom Center "Amercan haters." Unless of course you agree that we should have "a million more Mogadishus," and somehow thats "pro American." You really ought to check on who is in your party.
http://www.sullivan-county.com/x/horowitz2.htm
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel | Thursday, June 09, 2005 at 02:13 PM
Maybe we ought to show the Board of Directors of the International Freedom Center what the view is like from the top of a 100 story building...or we could just give them a little push out of a C-5.
Posted by: Rita | Thursday, June 09, 2005 at 03:51 PM
Is this still about the 9/11 memorial?
What was there was great.
Our enemies took down what was there and what was great. We don't need any explanations. Go take care of them where they are, then go restore what was taken and what was great - a couple of floors higher- yeah, that would be good and that would be satisfying.
This sounds very simple, but I am a simpleton...We had it the way we wanted it. They messed it up. Let's put it back the way we wanted it. Want to add a few floors just to say F--- You? Sounds good to me!
So, it's Donald Trump, so what!
That would be another F--- You to them. Wouldn't it?
"Tis very simple yet very profound.
Posted by: Chris Sears | Thursday, June 09, 2005 at 10:57 PM
My son just read this and said "Mom, you never say that! (F---)
Posted by: Chris Sears | Thursday, June 09, 2005 at 11:19 PM
My son just read this and said "Mom, you never say that! (F---)
Posted by: Chris Sears | Thursday, June 09, 2005 at 11:21 PM
As the writer at www.anklebitingpundits.com (where by the way, we have an interview w/ Col. Hunt), please allow me to respond to this diatribe.
First, you say that we are pare of " whole crew of people who seem to consider themselves the moral authority on everything are now publicizing and promoting the Take Back the Memorial movement. They are doing this because they don't like the people who are planning to put a Freedom Center on the site. They don't like the size or location or set up of the proposed memorial. They don't like anything as far as I can tell."
On that. I could care less about the size of the memorial. I do however, have a problem with it's "set up" being at the site of Ground Zero. The people who are behind setting it up are the ones using it to further an agenda.
And please tell me where I am being a "moral authority" on anything? I merely expressed an opinion of strong disagreement with what is being proposed.
You then go on to say: "The 9/11 tragedy has been co-opted for political purposes and everyone who has done so should be ashamed...The event, the families and now the site are being used to forward an agenda."
Could you please point out to me where my opinion is being used to forward an agenda? I merely take issue with the planners pushing theirs. I do not demand, or even suggest what should go there. I do think, however, what is being planned there is a disgrace. But can you please tell me what "agenda" I am pushing, especially since I have not said what I think should go at the site.
Posted by: bulldogpundit | Friday, June 10, 2005 at 04:43 PM
Hey bulldog pundit--
Saw your interview with Colonel Hunt--nice piece. How come you didn't let your readers know they could find more of his writings here at Two Babes and A Brain?
I went back and re-read what you wrote and what I wrote and you are right, I blew it...sorry. If you'd like me to post it on the main page I would be happy to do so.
With the hope that you return here, I'd like to ask a few questions since you said that the Take Back the Memorial site was important and that you were against the Freedom Center. For the record I am not for it--I just don't care--the longer they spend arguing about it the longer the site will remain empty and I think that is a bad thing..
But how do you know that the "narrative of hope" is a bad thing? How come putting 9/11 in historical context with other things that have happened in the US and around the world is a bad thing? I get that you don't like the politics of the guys running the Freedom Center--to be quite honest neither do I--they give me a bad name--but how can you and others object to something that you don't have a solid outline of? And where were the complaints when the whole damn thing was in the planning stages...why can't we get our heads out of our asses and get this site rebuilt?
Hope you come back--and answer my questions--and again I am sorry for mischaracterizing your post--too much caffeine--have to switch to decaf real soon--
Chris
Posted by: Chris | Friday, June 10, 2005 at 05:27 PM
Chris - All wiped out from posting responses to you at our site. Will get back to you on this later, and will specifically note your site, not only for Col. Hunt, but for the other stuff here as well. I like the site. Serious discussions mixed w/ irreverant, off color, un-PC, sometimes lewd humor. It's sort of right after my own heart and very similar to what we are like at ABP.
Posted by: bulldog pundit | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 12:03 AM
No, Chris. You were right before! Bulldog is a self-righteous ass with an agenda. And he's fat.
They're paid political consultants for a particular side. Nothing they do is without bias. Maybe it's just a job. Hmmph.
BP- ..."Serious discussions"? I'm a frequent visitor. I know better. You're a den of (well-paid) bile filled trolls, and your "content" is talking point memos. You're not a writer...you just copy and paste what's handed to you from higher up the chain.
You're a slick guy on the internet, though. I bet you're the pimp in the chat rooms.
Posted by: GodBlessAmerica | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 02:21 AM
GodBlessAmerica - You are an ill informed dumb ass. Well, about one thing you're right. I could stand to drop about 15-20 pounds.
As to us being "well paid consultants", you're way wrong. My writing partner, Pat, WAS a well-paid campaign consultant for a GOP campaign firm (Marsh, Copsey & Scott) that handles Congressional and Senate races. That firm also does work for the National Republican Congressional Committee. How do I know that? Well, I know him. But it's also on our website, and he makes no secret of that. At the present he is on leave from that job, and working for the CATO Institute on their Social Security project. He's in charge of media strategy and lobbying. Come October he'll be working for a communications firm in NH.
As to me, read the website jackass. I'm an attorney that has no connection to any political party, let along being a "well-paid consultant". If only that were true. I get nothing sent to me from the RNC, or any political party. Am I conservative and do I lean heavily to the GOP? Yup? But I have zero contact with them.
A "pimp in the chat rooms"? What the F-ck are you talking about? God damned idiot.
Posted by: bulldogpundit | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 02:40 PM