Burning Bodies Redux

OK, time to get this one right. Being in combat is very difficult; being in guerilla war is so much worse. There are no battle lines, the bad guys never have uniforms, they seldom stand and fight, they cheat, they cut off your heads, they burn and hang your body from bridges and they fly planes into buildings. It is hell on earth.

Being in combat hurts. It is debilitating. I am not talking about the bar room tough guys or the TV warriors or the muscle guys who walk around telling everyone that they were Navy SEALS and were not; I am talking about having been in real combat—the killed-the-enemy kind of combat.

Most who have done it never talk about it. They almost never tell stories or brag about it and when the guy at the end of the bar or the guy on the blog starts yelling about blood and guts and being real men and a ton of other bullshit, we usually walk away shaking our heads. But I will try one more time to explain it to you...

Soldiers who survive combat do so because of their courage, their training and their buddies. Most soldiers kill only when they have to and do so reluctantly and even then they are affected by it for the rest of their lives. A soldiers’ psyche or what we loosely call their humanity survives only because the horrific act of killing is authorized, legal and rewarded by their government and even then it still leaves scars. This I know.

When we talk about desecrating and burning bodies, an act made illegal in both civilian and military courts, what we are really talking about is the humanity, hearts and souls of our soldiers.

The Code of Conduct, The Rules of Land Warfare, The Geneva Convention, were drawn up and written down, in part, to try to save soldiers’ humanity. They were designed in an effort to protect that which makes them human. If we say it is ok to burn bodies then we send our men and women down the road to hell that is littered with the dismembering of bodies, collecting ears, rape, murder and more.

When we justify our actions by pointing to atrocities committed by the enemy, when we do the things that they do, when we become like them we become them. We become the thing we hate.

What we need are leaders that stop soldiers from doing harm to themselves; leaders that were not present in Afghanistan when soldiers burned two bodies, in broad daylight in front of an film crew.

I don’t care a damn about the Taliban bodies that were burned or the Muslim religious laws that were violated. I don’t give a damn about those things. But I do care that the soldiers who did this will probably be messed up for the rest of their lives. I do care that there leaders did not protect their men and say, “Wait, stop...” I do care that the leaders did not take care of their guys.

Let me be very clear, if burning the bodies was really necessary, then the leaders should have done it and taken the hit for it. They should not have allowed their soldiers to do it. Also, the leaders should have never allowed the cameras to be there--period. I do not agree that the bodies needed to be burned but if the guy on the ground made that call then the leader of that organization should be the one doing the deed.

There are many more aggressive and effective things we should be doing in this War on Terrorism, like killing bad guys in their sleep, using whore houses as intelligence collection points, pitting Imams against other Imams, bombing Damascus and Tehran, finding and killing bin Laden and Zarqawi. These things work; burning bodies only diminishes us and hurts those that do it, in ways to terrible to contemplate and too difficult to explain to those who have never been there.

Other links on this topic:

Stop the ACLU, Cao's Blog and Big Dog's Weblog

BlackFive, Jason Coleman, and Hyscience

or Independent Conservative

Comments

[Lisa]

OK Colonel...so you're winning me over here. I see now that your concern is, again, for the soldier on a more personal level. And I will say you are more qualified to speak to that than the averge Joe. I am not going to presume that I know anything about the psyche of a soldier who has seen combat and who has had to kill the enemy. As a child, I saw the effect Vietnam had on a soldier who was close to me and it was very scary to watch. I certainly don't want to see our young soldiers today go through the same thing.

But I also want to believe that the reason for the actual burning of these bodies was for disposal and sanitary reasons and that the psych ops showed up subsequent to the burning and only then decided to use the burning as a tactic. I certainly don't want to believe that it was all one operation.

[Jason Coleman]

Well Colonel, thank you for reconsidering your earlier statments. I still urge you to continue looking into this further.

Please take a look at Martinkus.

I think that you could make a strong case to the American media and the citizenry as to why this particular anti-war activists and very possible insurgent sympathizer should not have been there. As for Dupont I've been critical of his objectivity but at the very least he's willing to admit and voice the truth. He admits that the troops who burned the bodies didn't do it to desecrate.

But Please Colonel, take a hard look at Martinkus and how this guy was able to work his way into an embedd positiion.

--Jason

[Richard]

Colonel Hunt, your trackback feature doesn't appear to be working. Attempted to trackback to you from Turkey's Contribution In Iraq: On 'a conversation with a Turkish friend at Starbucks"

[Walter E. Wallis]

Everybody whose first impression was bad soldiers, punish them, was wrong, wrong, wrong. Colonel, you had an obligation to the troops but you chose to stand instead with the Feather Merchants. Rumsfeld should not have implied a wrong, he should have said he would not comment until the investigation was in. My graddson will be going back to Fallujah next year. I sincerely hope he does not hesitate too long for fear of criticism and die for it.
And you, Colonel sir, piss in your hat.

[Lisa]

Hey Wally...

Good thing the Colonel doesn't wear a hat.

[Redhead Infidel]

Colonel, I appreciate your new tack. The one about burning bodies permanently scarring the fragile psyche of our troops. It's an interesting strategy. Looks like you took a step back, and decided to come at it from an "But I really care" approach. You're givin' it the old college try.

However, that wasn't a consideration in your original post calling for the punishment of the "guilty" - meaning our troops, of course. And therein lies the problem - you jumped to the conclusion of guilt, and then only after the trouncing you got in comments, decided to come back with a new take on the negative psychological implications.

BTW, the leader did do the job, and he IS taking the hit for it. That's the LT you found "guilty" in your first post on the subject.

"Our government will investigate and prosecute those responsible, if in fact one of the good guys went stupid and actually burned an enemy soldiers’ body. First let us make sure its true then, punish the guilty and move out."

Remember? Of course, that's not to say a man can't change his mind, I just find it a little less than straight-shootin'.

I don't believe the LT meant to hurt his troops' psyches, nor did he go stupid and burn bodies for the hell of it. He's an Airborne officer leading troops on the ground in the fiercest of war zones - the odds are that he's top-notch - or he wouldn't be there.

Our soldiers have it tough enough. They deserve, first and foremost, the benefit of the doubt from those of us at home - particularly those of us that have served. Does that mean blind acceptance or carte blanche? No, just the benefit of the doubt.

[Chris]

RedHead Infadel--while it wasn't part of the original post it was part of the inteviews he gave on the subject prior to writing about it here. The video clips in the left hand sidebar will allow you to see that.

Watch the video of the burning bodies---hygeine hazards? They could have kicked the bodies about five feet and rolled them off the ledge.

These guys are in toruble because they burnt the bodies unnecesarrily and allowed it to be filmed. You think by now the military would have taken the cameras out of this war and out of the hands of stupif people who thought it was fun to film/photograph bad behavior on the part of US soldiers.

And if you think Colonel Hunt changed his mind/position because a bunch of people made nasty remarks in the comments you don't know him. He says and does what he thinks is right no matter what--like the Pentagon--or who--any of the petty little people who attacked his character--think.

Thanks for stopping by,

Chris

[Nurse Judy]

Col Hunt:
With the unexpected death of my cousin, my niece being in the middle of Hurricane Wilma, and my St Louis Cardinals losing the pennant, I have not turned on my computer or watched anything but the weather channel and sports for some days now. I must say, I missed all the hoopla on the burning of the bodies; however, I am catching up, and it has given me that sick feeling that I intuitively get when something just isn't right.

Like the poet said, “Every man’s death diminishes me.” And I don’t say this lightly or in a Polyannish way. Whether you are killing men in a war or watching patients die in front of you on the operating table because you can’t get the bleeding stopped fast enough, it affects you, it diminishes you just a bit. It can either make you more human or less human. And no, you don't brag about it, or talk about it, or photograph it.

It is compassionate leadership that makes all the difference. No human should kill another human or burn another human, whether dead or alive, if there is an alternative. That is what makes us human, even in war.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. You have an extraordinary capacity for compassion, a level that I have rarely seen outside of medicine. That compassion comes from seeing the worst that can happen and becoming better for it and expecting better of others.

[USMC Steve]

Here is what I have been able to find out so far based on a whoooole lot of deconfliction (sorting through a whole bunch of information from various sources)and photo evidence.

The ground there is very rocky. You ARE NOT GOING TO DIG A HOLE IN IT. You could blast one with C4 but why should you waste explosives which you might need to pursue your mission? From most all of the reliable accounts, they had two bodies which had been decomposing for a while in front of their positions and they decided to burn them to get rid of a MAJOR health hazard. Rotting bodies attract insects, which then try to land in your chow, or on YOU. If you have any open sores, you will probably get an infection. You will then get sick and possibly have to be medivac'ed, which will reduce your unit's efficiency. Everyone following me here? This should be confirmed, but if that is why they did what they did, nobody is gonna lose any of their humanity, and no war crime was committed.

If their own people didn't want them (wow what a surprise, the locals didn't want two taliban terrorists' bodies back) then it was reasonable that the troopers got rid of the bodies in whatever way was most expedient, and there is nothing to see here folks.

[Redhead Infidel]

"These guys are in toruble because they burnt the bodies unnecesarrily and allowed it to be filmed."

Well, Chris - you're still presuming guilt. Do you see that in your language? I mean, how do you know?? See - that's the problem I have with that whole mind-set. Why don't our troops get the benefit of the doubt? We get a few facts here or there - much of it conflicting - and we rush to judge from the safety and comfort of our armchairs!

Again, I think the LT reviewed his choices and made his decision. Could he have rolled the corpses off a cliff and be done with it? I don't know - and neither do you. But I don't think it's fair to presume he had bad intentions. Nor do I choose to presume he's an imbecile until proven otherwise. So far, all we've got to go on are some absurdly spun stories crafted by two men who have pre-disposed anti-American, anti-US military biases. Why should we believe them and not the LT?

All I'm saying is that LT Eric Nelson and his troops deserve better from us! They've earned it.

Now I understand if I've become a thorn in your side. But I'm so tired of seeing our troops dragged through the mire of presumptions of guilt, that I have to call it like I see it. I've written about this for a long time.

Let me tell you what my very First Thought was when I read Colonel Hunt's article: "et tu?" The reason is this: our troops are at a pre-determined disadvantage. The Liberal Left hates them, the media wants to destroy them using images and words as their weapons of choice, all the while they're waging an unpopular, but crucial war. Do I tend to go overboard to tip the unbalanced scale in the other direction? Perhaps you'd argue that I do, and that would make me a proud apologist. But I'd much rather err on the side of our troops than against them. IF they are ever accused of a crime and found guilty beyond doubt, THEN there is plenty of time to ridicule their stupidity and call for their incarceration. But not before. Because if I read the Colonel's piece and winced at the hasty judgment - I'd hate to see how the troops who are under fire right now feel of it.

Granted, I didn't watch Colonel Hunt's interview. Nor do I know him. I've opined on what he's written - like we bloggers do every day. I haven't besmirched his character - though I vehemently disagree with his read on this subject. I'm quite sure, as you've said, that he's a veru nice guy - he's obviously very compassionate. When it's all said and done, we ARE on the same side; and I'd hope that we can scrap and fight all day long like the troopers we are and still have a cold beer at the end of the day.

[Chris]

Well, RedHead, you've come to right place for arguing all day long and drinking beer at the end. Search through the comments on this site and you will see that that is what we do--and yes--we all get carried away from time to time.

What I will say is this. I do know Colonel Hunt. He is a friend as well as a blog partner as well as, on occasion, my employer. Having said that, he and I disagree often.

I know what painstaking efforts he goes to to be on the side of our military. I know his background, I know how he researches things before he goes on tv, and I know that there have been times when he has still been wrong. Each time, that I know of that that has happened he has said so and appologized for that mistake.

I believe him here. I believe that the hygeine hazard thing smells (sorry) and that it is the reason they are giving NOW. We will see, as you say. And if he is wrong, he will be the loudest guy saying so.

Thanks for the chat!

You bringing the beer on Friday?

Chris

[Col Hunt]

Judy,

You are too kind thank you M'am

[Lisa]

Chris...Redhead...

Shall we now hold hands and sing Kum bah ya or however you spell it.

[Chris]

Nope but I will take a beer and a smile :)

[Redhead Infidel]

No singing if I can help it - unless you enjoy the sound of caterwauling - which is about all I can pull off. Loud and effective, but not so pretty. :D

[Walter E. Wallis]

I still remember G.K.Allen snaring a body with a wire loop to drag it into a foxhole. The smell was rank! Hunt prejudged the action of those troops and he was wrong. No one cares about the results of an investigation, it is enough that the charges were made and validated by an officer. Shit in your mess kit, Colonel.

[Chris]

Walter--you made your point. Feel better now? Get a life!

[JohnDewey]

Maybe I'm not understanding this incident totally. If this was just a matter of hygiene, why couldn't the locals have disposed of the bodies? I agree with Col Hunt. The poor soldiers who did this will have to live with mental images of their igniting human bodies ... for the rest of their lives. Their leaders shouldn't have placed them in that situation.

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